A terrible bug which should be easy to fix
Greetings.
Today was my first day of doing an Artemis booth at a sci-fi convention. While it all went relatively smooth, we had one most dreadful techincal problem: one of the stations could start getting constantly out of sync, often showing information outdated by 1-5 seconds. This is most likely caused by use of WiFi - my router only has 4 sockets so even if i'd ethernet everything i'd still have 2 stations loose. This could be fixed by exiting game completely and re-joining, however, here the bug comes in: the sever still considers you to be there! And if you're helm or weapons, your game is screwed! You can no longer win. If you're engi, you're going to have to play w/o engie for remainder of the mission (and if you're left on some stupid setup, again, you're screwed).
This is very disheartening and anti-climatic. I had a team that struggled very much had this problem on their final pack of enemies and they were very disappointed (I would be too). This should be very easy to fix: just either allow some kind of override (select already taken station and boot the current user) or allow server to "kick" stations (so that a bugged station could be vacated), or allow server to drop all clients (vacating all stations), or just make it so "taken" does not prevent from joining the station and just kicks whoever was there before, or (probably best solution) allow save-load functionality, so that you could restart the game from the point where you left it
Whichever way, I very much plead for this to be fixed, because it's really gamebreaking when you introduce games to a wide audience of newbies.
Today was my first day of doing an Artemis booth at a sci-fi convention. While it all went relatively smooth, we had one most dreadful techincal problem: one of the stations could start getting constantly out of sync, often showing information outdated by 1-5 seconds. This is most likely caused by use of WiFi - my router only has 4 sockets so even if i'd ethernet everything i'd still have 2 stations loose. This could be fixed by exiting game completely and re-joining, however, here the bug comes in: the sever still considers you to be there! And if you're helm or weapons, your game is screwed! You can no longer win. If you're engi, you're going to have to play w/o engie for remainder of the mission (and if you're left on some stupid setup, again, you're screwed).
This is very disheartening and anti-climatic. I had a team that struggled very much had this problem on their final pack of enemies and they were very disappointed (I would be too). This should be very easy to fix: just either allow some kind of override (select already taken station and boot the current user) or allow server to "kick" stations (so that a bugged station could be vacated), or allow server to drop all clients (vacating all stations), or just make it so "taken" does not prevent from joining the station and just kicks whoever was there before, or (probably best solution) allow save-load functionality, so that you could restart the game from the point where you left it
Whichever way, I very much plead for this to be fixed, because it's really gamebreaking when you introduce games to a wide audience of newbies.
[Last edited Jul 13, 2013 19:09:28]
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11 replies
Allowing the server to "kick" a station is a good idea. That way no one gets "accidentally" booted.
what kind of hardware were you using for networking? Not exact models, just speeds of components.
I've run 2 full sessions on different hardware and not had any performance problem with all stations except the server running on wifi.
This is including being on their local home network with "other" traffic and access to the internet per the typical U-Verse or Comcast setup (their router supplies DHCP, DNS, Wifi at 802.11G and 4 physical lan ports on 10/100). So with run of the mill hardware, on a non-isolated network, it can run just fine.
Since you were at a con, I assume you brought an isolated switch, something supplying DHCP and wifi. What speed networking was involved? Did you use Cat5 cables for the wired stations?
I've run 2 full sessions on different hardware and not had any performance problem with all stations except the server running on wifi.
This is including being on their local home network with "other" traffic and access to the internet per the typical U-Verse or Comcast setup (their router supplies DHCP, DNS, Wifi at 802.11G and 4 physical lan ports on 10/100). So with run of the mill hardware, on a non-isolated network, it can run just fine.
Since you were at a con, I assume you brought an isolated switch, something supplying DHCP and wifi. What speed networking was involved? Did you use Cat5 cables for the wired stations?
I had no problem with WiFi too, when I was at home. I suppose that the trade center we were in, plus other booths, there were so many WiFi and other electronics rolling around it was causing interference. My router is 802.11g (54Mbps wireless connection) and 10/100 Mbps lan ports. When we were using wired connection we had no problem whatsoever.
I've seen Thom take Artemis to several conventions and he never uses the WiFi. He always brings Cat5 cables and a switch. This is a wise move, as I learned at Notacon 10. Before the convention, organizers boasted about the incredible industrial strength WiFi network they would be providing. It seemed that they brought in truckloads of equipment to supply plenty of high speed N-channel connections for everyone.
The network itself worked as promised, except it was almost instantly overwhelmed by hundreds of bandwidth-hungry users. Within minutes it was useless for playing Artemis.
If you must have two stations using WiFi at a convention, then they should be Communications and Science. Helm should always have the most reliable connection.
The network itself worked as promised, except it was almost instantly overwhelmed by hundreds of bandwidth-hungry users. Within minutes it was useless for playing Artemis.
If you must have two stations using WiFi at a convention, then they should be Communications and Science. Helm should always have the most reliable connection.
"Damn the torpedoes! Four bells, Captain Drayton!"
(Likely actual words of Admiral David Farragut, USN, at the battle of Mobile Bay. Four bells was the signal for the engine room to make full steam ahead).
(Likely actual words of Admiral David Farragut, USN, at the battle of Mobile Bay. Four bells was the signal for the engine room to make full steam ahead).
That's certainly a possibility.
One workaround is to get an old 100Mb hub or switch, and daisy chain that off your router.
This will give you more physical ports so you can do wired connections.
At a convention, as you surmised, there's going to be a lot of other wifi traffic going on. Odds are good some other Access Point will be broadcasting on the same channel, and now you've got signal contention.
If you just get an 8 port switch or hub you could just use that.
By default, Windows will auto-assign an IP if it doesn't get one. So all your machines can talk to each other if they are all Windows boxes.
If you want more control, enable DHCP on the server PC and that'll hand out specific IP addresses.
That'll likely prevent the disconnect problem in the first place.
One workaround is to get an old 100Mb hub or switch, and daisy chain that off your router.
This will give you more physical ports so you can do wired connections.
At a convention, as you surmised, there's going to be a lot of other wifi traffic going on. Odds are good some other Access Point will be broadcasting on the same channel, and now you've got signal contention.
If you just get an 8 port switch or hub you could just use that.
By default, Windows will auto-assign an IP if it doesn't get one. So all your machines can talk to each other if they are all Windows boxes.
If you want more control, enable DHCP on the server PC and that'll hand out specific IP addresses.
That'll likely prevent the disconnect problem in the first place.
Yeah Mike, I came to that conclusion as well, since typical router has 4 LAN ports, I connected server, helms weps and engi to it, and left comms and science on wifi. They never had any problem whatsoever.
BTW, I was using a router, so DHCP was on already.
BTW, I was using a router, so DHCP was on already.
to be more pendantic, a typical Small Office/Home Office (SOHO) router has 4 ports. The typical SOHO router supplies, DNS, DHCP and firewall services. Bigger routers have more ports.
DHCP is the only useful component from that, as it makes sure all your PCs get their own IP address.
What most folks don't realize, is that MS boxes, in the absence of a DHCP server, will self-assign themselves something. So plugging 6 Windows boxes into a switch with no DHCP will yield a network that all nodes can probably see each other.
Or, for purposes of your own sanity, manually assign each PC an IP address (192.168.1.1, 192.168.1.2 and so on)
It looks like 8 port switches (10/100/1000) can be had for $70 or less from Amazon. you only really need a 10/100 switch, the probability that you have GigE NICs in your PCs is low, and the game does not need more than 100Mb/s anyway.
If you're going to do the Convention setup a lot, that's the way I would go. If you really like DHCP, you could technically daisy chain your router to the switch, but keep all the stations on the switch.
daisy chaining's not the most kosher for network design, but it'll work for your needs.
The PCs will ask for an IP, and the router will hear the DHCP request and respond through the switch. Once everybody has an IP, they'll all be talking to each other (on the switch) and NOT passing to the router.
DHCP is the only useful component from that, as it makes sure all your PCs get their own IP address.
What most folks don't realize, is that MS boxes, in the absence of a DHCP server, will self-assign themselves something. So plugging 6 Windows boxes into a switch with no DHCP will yield a network that all nodes can probably see each other.
Or, for purposes of your own sanity, manually assign each PC an IP address (192.168.1.1, 192.168.1.2 and so on)
It looks like 8 port switches (10/100/1000) can be had for $70 or less from Amazon. you only really need a 10/100 switch, the probability that you have GigE NICs in your PCs is low, and the game does not need more than 100Mb/s anyway.
If you're going to do the Convention setup a lot, that's the way I would go. If you really like DHCP, you could technically daisy chain your router to the switch, but keep all the stations on the switch.
daisy chaining's not the most kosher for network design, but it'll work for your needs.
The PCs will ask for an IP, and the router will hear the DHCP request and respond through the switch. Once everybody has an IP, they'll all be talking to each other (on the switch) and NOT passing to the router.
I didn't knew that, but still I don't trust MS to organize itself and be stable at it, so I'd prefer DHCP or static assignment to that. If I'm going to be doing convention booths regularily, I will of course consider purchasing a router with 6 LAN ports to be safe from any WiFi interference.
Uplinking one switch to one SOHO router is pretty kosher. As long as you don't get confused and use two cables to do it and cause a broadcast storm :)
Once you start dealing with five or six switches in a chain, things get a bit dicey, but a single uplink is 100% ok.
Or, as suggested above, JUST get an 8 port switch and assign every workstation a static IP. Throw the router away. That'll give you a perfectly minimal and stable setup. No chance of DHCP failure, no extra noise on the network, just pure gaming.
Once you start dealing with five or six switches in a chain, things get a bit dicey, but a single uplink is 100% ok.
Or, as suggested above, JUST get an 8 port switch and assign every workstation a static IP. Throw the router away. That'll give you a perfectly minimal and stable setup. No chance of DHCP failure, no extra noise on the network, just pure gaming.
"As long as you don't get confused and use two cables to do it and cause a broadcast storm :)"
Boy, does that bring back memories!! Had help from the head of IT...
Boy, does that bring back memories!! Had help from the head of IT...
I've presented at two conventions and over a half dozen solo events in a hotel and I use a dedicated $40 Vizio HD dual-band wifi router ( http://amzn.to/195VjLo ) sitting standalone with no incoming internet connection.
My server wireless connection is static. The rest I let DHCP off of the router.
Runs all day several days in a row with no problems.
Just it's own little wifi island that I could adjust the band for if I needed to, but I haven't needed to.
The only wires I deal with are power and the joystick. Well ... and the DMX cables. :)
My server wireless connection is static. The rest I let DHCP off of the router.
Runs all day several days in a row with no problems.
Just it's own little wifi island that I could adjust the band for if I needed to, but I haven't needed to.
The only wires I deal with are power and the joystick. Well ... and the DMX cables. :)
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